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#161 frightmare

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 06:52 AM

I agree with you there. It started out as being sort of cute and amusing but now it's just overbearing. The love triangle thing was the worst though. It was completely unnecessary, in my opinion.


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#162 Faemonic

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:34 PM

Newest episode, "Bleeding Through"!

 

Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no this has so much NO.

 

I know that I said I loved Young Cora, but in this episode she was just sort of pathetic. This is the stereotype of the woman who lies, cheats and traps a man with a baby for money or status. It would be an interesting twist if such a stereotyped and stigmatized woman could be made to seem sympathetic, and that seems to be what they were trying for what with Snow White saying that her own mother was so horrible for eavesdropping and telling a secret--but 1.) it's one of those times where I uphold truth above the personal boundaries of people who try to work things out, because there's no excuse for cheating and lying like that; if Leopold's love was so true, then it should have lasted through the "shady" history of Cora's "virtue" and "good name" being stolen by a cad, and 2.) Cora gave up Zelena so that Cora could have her own best chance. That sounds an awful lot like Papa Peter Pan, who we all know had no redemption arc and was just an villain-coated villain with villain filling, because he did it out of selfishness instead of low self-esteem (like Emma), recognition of actual flaws (like Regina in the early second season "I don't know how to love very well"), and the Charmings (who had what Hook would call "extenuating circumstances"). Cora's reasoning goes against the show's whole moral, that being an orphan sucks but parents do it to give the orphan, their child, the child's best chance.

 

No, no, no--I had read some spoilers and was so glad that Zelena was not Leopold's daughter, because then Regina would have been married/sold to the father of her half-sister, so it's not quite incest by association...then it totally becomes incest by association because Cora was engaged to her daughter's future husband-- which I sort of consider incest by association. For all the relations that this show has, they used to be a lot better at keeping that distance.

 

And then Rumple feels up his ex-girlfriend's daughter.

 

I might let Hook off the hook for having a thing for Milah and then having a thing for his prospective stepson's girlfriend/babymomma, but I am not letting him off the hook for not saying anything about the curse on his lips for the whole episode!

 

Okay, it was cute when he crossed his legs and bumped the table during a super serious seance, but--no, Hook. No, no, no I can't even look at you right now. Bad puppy!

 

Eww, ugh at Caddish Wossname Gardener. In the earlier seasons, while Belle or Mulan would give some hints or lip service to the patriarchy, I was actually glad that "patriarchy" didn't actually seem to be a thing in the Enchanted Forest. All the princesses are kicking ass and taking names like it ain't no big thing, rarely does anyone just keep going, "But you're a woman!" I thought that was refreshing, and now we loop around back to stale gender stereotypes and tired gender dynamics that work out in the same cliched way. Game of Thrones already has awesome ways to show awesome women sticking it to an established patriarchy. I liked Once Upon A Time because it showed both genders working as a team, or just being jerks to each other because they're jerks and not because of gender stereotypes.

 

At least Snow White and Regina got to have a heart-to-heart, not literally. I'm glad that Regina just might be beginning to see that Snow loves her and is going to love her more than Henry probably can ever!


Edited by Faemonic, 20 April 2014 - 11:36 PM.

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#163 frightmare

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:43 AM

I'm still glad that they didn't try and give Pan a redemption arc but I feel like they could have given him a much better back story. I mean, him being Rumple asshole of a dad? It was so unoriginal it made me cringe.


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#164 Faemonic

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:40 PM

Unoriginal for this show, yeah, where everybody has parents who are either abusive or misunderstood. But Peter Pan being Rumplestiltskin's father? Didn't see that one coming, although some fans knew it from the eggs-in-a-basket episode.

 

So...episode 19, "A Curious Thing". Neal!! Neal, Neal, Neal-- I still don't get why having two minds causes Rumpelstiltskin to sing in rhymes, but it's good to see Neal again! Man, he looks fine without those ridiculous scarves.

 

Yay, they fixed Snow White's gorgeous long raven princess hair...sort of. It's been looking like a bird's nest all season, it looks better in this episode finally.

 

By the way, we all know that Snow can talk to birds but why can Baelfire / Neal do that? When has he shown to be able to do that?

 

Outlaw Queen! Okay, I like that in the previous episode Regina actually made a move because her heart (and her baawwwdy) was ready, and not because a guy actually has to do anything to get some action. Initiative, emotional issues, women have it! That's a refreshing subversion. Still, their chemistry continues on the saccharine side for me, though...even with the flashbacks snarking like seriously Regina he gave you a whole pep talk about second chances when you were going to "eternal middle" yourself, you could be a little more respectful.

 

Fans of Japanese anime would call Regina "tsundere" (the girl version of "oh, he likes you, that's why he pulls on your pigtails and bullies you") but I'm as sick of that in anime as I am in live action American television.

 

Hook's my favorite character, but it hasn't been a good day for him. I like that they're focusing more on Hook's bond with Henry, but my Captain Swan shipping heart breaks at how contrived and unreasonable this plot is. YES, HOOK. YOU SHOULD HAVE TOLD EMMA. Plot contrivances usually make him smart. Why on earth is Zelena dancing around, making Mr. Gold-Stiltskin hog tie the pirate and stick him in the boot of his car? I want to be able to have seen that scene, because that has got to be more awkward than Mr. Gold-Stiltskin returning the sword he borrowed in Neverland to Hook on the flying Jolly Roger. (Some fans with sharp eyes noted that the sword Hook carried in Neverland was Milah's--The Dark One didn't return Hook's own sword after their duel. Hook and Rumple's relationship is so interesting and most of it's between the lines!)

 

Still, that bro-bond with Charming ended rather abruptly.

 

Yikes at the Flying Monkey Massacre. Was that Little John? Philip? Aurora? Bashful? Bye...

 

Yay, Snow and Charming have a superpower other than kissing. Power of Heart! Go, Planet!

 

The mechanics of that magic book are so strange. The magic system in this whole show is so strange--why does Zelena work magic so fast and have all that power to freeze people and freeze Regina and stuff...but suddenly when the plot calls for it, she's got her hands tied? Or has to have a pirate tied?


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#165 frightmare

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:00 AM

You know, I still have no idea where this Outlaw Queen thing came from. Was it suggested in the show at some point before it happened or did the writers just add it in due to popular demand with the fans?


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#166 Faemonic

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

I'm inclined to think that the writers just thought it up themselves, but that's only because all the fans I know had the flabbergasted reaction that Tinkerbell's "Find Your Soul Mate" spell led Regina to Robin Hood. It was less, "Ooh, yeah, that can work! I always knew it would even though they never met, and have already written earnest e-mails to the writers to make it happen," and more "Where is Marian? Where is Maid Marian???"

 

That said, the fans and the showrunners have a general sort of communicativeness and connection that I don't see between many fans and creators. So, when the possibility was introduced in-show...Regina fans were definitely open to it. Hence the cute pairing nickname trending on Twitter.

 

I agree that Captain Swan is about 85% fan-pandering by now, though...contrived relationship angst notwithstanding.


Edited by Faemonic, 28 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#167 frightmare

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:55 AM

Ah, I see. I guess that makes sense. I don't mind Outlaw Queen at all, I think it's kinda cute actually, but I'm so over this Captain Sawn business it's not even funny. I shipped Emma/Graham and Emma/August but apparently this show likes to ruin my shipper dreams.


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#168 Faemonic

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 01:04 AM

"Kansas!"

 

Okay, I was excited about their spin on Oz because we've been seeing flying monkeys in Henry's story book since the first season...but this retelling was a little boring. Prophecies! Jedi versus Sith, only with witches! Dorothy made...holy water...?

 

This whole episode was a hodgepodge mess with all the sudden developments with the villains, and the True Loves being so very useless (Robin Hood! 0.2 seconds-- Belle! 0.5 seconds that she used arguing instead of kissing Rumple better. Hook! "I get knocked down, but I get up again! You ain't ever gonna keep me down!" Lasted for slightly longer, but caused so much more damage getting conscious than the others did getting knocked out. And what's with the "never thought I'd see you smile" you jerk you did see Emma smile while she was practicing magic. And Charming...remember when he had baby Emma in his arms and looked so heroic taking down all the Evil Queen's knights? I miss that episode.)

 

The kidnapping was so sudden and easy that I was just going, "Walk it off! Just walk it off, you can do it!"

 

Our baddies are giving me whiplash except for puppy love Hook. Ha! I knew it was going to be mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, that was such a cliche and totally doesn't count as a kiss.

 

I was expecting somebody to kiss Emma's kiss curse away so that Emma could become the Light Magic wielder again. Doesn't have to be Hook. Doesn't have to be Henry. Doesn't have to be Regina, for you Swan Queen shippers out there. Could have been Mary Margaret.

 

I bet Rumple's been waiting a long time for an excuse to almost drown Hook and knock him out. I thought that was so funny, even though Hook is my favorite character. I thought that Hook would get his own miniature redemption arc by getting his hands--well, one of them--on The Dark One's dagger, but Regina was the star of this episode because Regina is the showrunners' favorite character.

 

And, actually, I think that was pretty fast to develop into The Most Powerful Light Witch Since Glinda The Good and then some. Just a few episodes ago, she was mad with glee over finally having someone to destroy. She was only beginning to think about whether or not other people were harmed in the preserving of her power. Now she's the Most Powerful Light Witch Ever In The Whole World Since Princess-Empress Emma Swan?? I liked the character development and the talk Regina and Zelena had in the jail cell afterwards (and the whiplash--a second chance is still something not to mess up on), but the way the magic reflects it is just something that I can't buy.

 

I pity Emma! She is so done with all these fairy tale adventures but you know the adventures are not done with her.

 

Yay! Charming and Hook are best buddies (relatively) again! Boo, Charming, that was a spectacularly bad idea that went down like an iron balloon--you should have kept them apart.

 

Aaand Rumple gives me morality whiplash again. What's this about not breaking any deals? The deal/promise he made Baelfire is in direct contradiction to the deal/promise he made Belle.

 

Rumple and Belle wedding! Mr and Mrs French! I've been hearing wedding spoilers all season, but I really did not think that it would be them. And now I wonder if it really will still be them because...the swirly at the end...Actually, I think that's so far been the prettiest spell that we've seen so far--no accounting for taste, though.

 

Oh, and nice job breaking the crisis aversion, Dark One...You'd think a 300-year-old magus would know the effect of killing someone who put their power and soul into a separate magic phylactery.

 

Are we doing the time warp? Two episodes to go!


Edited by Faemonic, 05 May 2014 - 01:05 AM.

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#169 frightmare

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 09:15 AM

I must admit, the mouth to mouth scene did make me laugh. Everyone on my Tumblr dashboard was reblogging it like "Oh, my god!!!" and I was just sitting there thinking "Come on, that doesn't even count!"


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#170 Faemonic

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:41 PM

Exactly. "Not letting you drown to death" is a million miles from "Neverland Snog, Take Two". Especially since Emma had an ulterior self-serving motive for putting her mouth on Hook's (he has soft experienced lips er I mean she didn't want to have her magic anymore.)

 

Seriously, Zelena was right there and Emma didn't do any magic. Emma could have at least tried to take on Rumple.


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#171 frightmare

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 11:16 AM

I have no idea what's going on specifically with the plot as I tend to only catch up with it via what people are saying on Tumblr. I'm still bitter that they killed Pan off, to be honest! I'll start taking an interest when they bring him back lmao.


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#172 Faemonic

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:39 AM

Actually... If Zelena's time-travel spell to undo the past did take effect... then Peter Pan might still be alive. I mean, everyone's obviously got to work out what Rumple's Alternative Conspiracy Endgame is, as well as what Zelena's Alternative Conspiracy Endgame is, but it would just be strange if Pan didn't have that alternative storyline sorted too...because he had a major Conspiracy Endgame than spanned four generations and three realms.

 

Or maybe that's too many balls in the air for the writers? No, I believe in them!


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#173 frightmare

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 09:20 AM

Actually... If Zelena's time-travel spell to undo the past did take effect... then Peter Pan might still be alive. I mean, everyone's obviously got to work out what Rumple's Alternative Conspiracy Endgame is, as well as what Zelena's Alternative Conspiracy Endgame is, but it would just be strange if Pan didn't have that alternative storyline sorted too...because he had a major Conspiracy Endgame than spanned four generations and three realms.

 

Or maybe that's too many balls in the air for the writers? No, I believe in them!

 

Oh god, I hope so! As much as I hated the "Pan is Rumple's dad' thing, I'd love to see him come back. He was so deliciously evil!


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#174 Faemonic

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 01:41 AM

Nope, Pan didn't come back. It was just what video gamers of fantasy RPG's call "a sidequest".

I was beginning to like Captain Swan again, but it kind of rubs me wrong that Emma just kissed Hook again because she found out that she traded his ship for a magic bean to get to her. (Oh, and he ditched his crew? Did he start sailing and then kick them over the plank? So he's body count is now Claude, Blackbeard, and about four or five of Regina's own Queensguard.) But mostly, even though Outlaw Queen was saccharine-tsundere and rushed, I liked that Robin didn't have to do anything and Regina just wanted to. Even the Neverland kiss between Emma and Hook was not because Hook saved David's life but because Emma just really wanted to. And I get that Emma's would sort of kind of want to after a confession like that, but I sort of think that she shouldn't because it comes off like to "get" a girl a guy's got to be really loud about the good things he's done. So, like, Emma owes him a ship but she can only give him a... "ship". Captain Swan? Guess we can't call him Captain anymore. Unless David elects him Captain of the royal guards.

Although it is well done how Neal is still in Emma's heart and part of the Charmings history.

The time travel tied up neatly more or less, too...except when it wasn't supposed to. And when Snow turns out to not need any explanation like what was at the end of Season 1, which makes the "poisoned an apple because she thought I was prettier than her" just strange.

Rumple and Belle have gone all downhill since Skin Deep, but I do like that vow: "Sometimes the best book has the dustiest cover, and the best cup is chipped."
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#175 frightmare

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 08:53 AM

'Nope, Pan didn't come back.'

 

Damn it! I wasn't really expecting him to but still, a girl can hope! I saw that they kissed again on Tumblr because my whole dash was going crazy. The writers of this show really know how to reel their audience, huh?


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#176 Faemonic

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 12:14 PM

I saw that they kissed again on Tumblr because my whole dash was going crazy. The writers of this show really know how to reel their audience, huh?

 

There were two kisses. One was where Emma was pretending to be some tavern wench looking for a one-night stand to distract the Past Version Hook from the Future Present Hook, and Hook got jealous of watching Emma kiss Hook because Hook wanted to be kissing Emma instead of Hook, so Hook punched Hook unconscious.

 

That one was fun! Bizarrely out of character for Emma, but it had Hook shipping himself with the floor so that was a bizarre situation.

 

The other one was the one I was complaining about, even though it was supposed to be all soft and sweet, with the character development of Hook being a hero and Emma defrosting her emotional walls.


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#177 frightmare

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:57 AM

I'm not overly fond of the turning Hook into a hero thing. I liked him better when he was a bad guy. He was so entertaining! Plus, his heroic character development seems to be tethered to his love for Emma.

 

Also, I hear Elsa from Frozen is going to be in OUAT now? How random. I wonder if she'll end up being related to Henry, lmao.


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#178 Faemonic

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:57 AM

Hook is still entertaining to me ;) Episodes about him are always so much fun (Good Form and The Jolly Roger... although I think The Crocodile was more about Rumplestiltskin, and Tallahassee was more about Emma.) I don't like it when the characters try to make it out that his character development is about Emma only, because the really heroic things he's done have been about other people: returning to Storybrooke with the last remaining magic bean was because of his memories of young Baelfire, and tricking David into living longer was because David reminded him of Liam.

 

Of all the villains, I think Hook has the most believable redemption arc, because even back when he was this ping-pong ball of a minion/henchman to other bad guys, he had the guts to suggest to Regina that their constant quest for revenge is the real reason that nobody likes them. He gets strangely philosophical about it, which is probably why Regina goes to him to talk about what it's like to be a villain and he replies, "We've wasted our lives."

 

 

I'm not a fan of their bringing in Elsa, either. The other Disney princesses and fairy tales had nostalgia value, so an adaptation in Once Upon A Time could be refreshing. It's too soon for Elsa to be adapted! In an interview, the show creators Kitsis and Horowitz said that Elsa being a misunderstood villain was "powerful" as a message to them, but I'm just hearing that they only have one writing trick (make the "villain" tragically misunderstood and a product of their circumstances) and Frozen already did it.


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#179 frightmare

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:22 AM

I agree about the Elsa part. There's so many disney princesses they could include or stories they could adapt but no, they had to go with something far too modern. They've certainly created a niche for making villains misunderstood. I'm glad they didn't really do that with Peter Pan at least, all though the whole "I am your father" thing will always annoy me. 


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#180 Bloom

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 09:25 PM

I agree about the Elsa part. There's so many disney princesses they could include or stories they could adapt but no, they had to go with something far too modern. They've certainly created a niche for making villains misunderstood. I'm glad they didn't really do that with Peter Pan at least, all though the whole "I am your father" thing will always annoy me. 

 

I'm not a fan of their bringing in Elsa, either. The other Disney princesses and fairy tales had nostalgia value, so an adaptation in Once Upon A Time could be refreshing. It's too soon for Elsa to be adapted! In an interview, the show creators Kitsis and Horowitz said that Elsa being a misunderstood villain was "powerful" as a message to them, but I'm just hearing that they only have one writing trick (make the "villain" tragically misunderstood and a product of their circumstances) and Frozen already did it.

 

I do agree that I think it's way too early to include a character that looks like Elsa. I mean, Frozen had just come out not even a year ago, and already they are embedding her in the show. Granted, it's odd timing considering the fact that the show came out during the end of their filming process -- so how would they have known that Elsa, or Frozen in general, would have made a huge success?

 

But my point in this matter is that Elsa isn't necessarily a good person that Disney made it out to be. She's actually The Snow Queen that was often looked at as a villain and cruel to others. So to make her the next villain would be the best bet. What most people aren't going to like is the fact that a character that is dressed up just like Disney's Elsa will be evil and not necessarily good. So we'll see what happens with the media. Some will enjoy the true story of The Snow Queen while others will find it foreign from what they first witnessed via from Frozen.


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